There are many reasons why so many of us need a vacation right now more than ever. And that’s because COVID-19 has changed how we work, and that also introduced a new term that we all became very familiar with: “Zoom Fatigue.”

Those lucky enough to work remotely during the pandemic, I am sure you have experienced seven consecutive video meetings, followed by a “virtual happy hour” with friends, and then spent an hour with family as they try to figure out how not to talk over each other on FaceTime…the pure exhaustion of “Zoom fatigue” is all too familiar an idea now.

The CEO and Founder of Zoom has rejected most in-person meetings and explained his rationale like this: “Why would I leave my office, or leave the country to do an hour meeting when I can do the same meeting over a Zoom?”

But, that’s cost bigger mental health issues because we are all on Zoom, all day, every day.

Here is a summary of the episode, and you’ll find the full-transcript below if you prefer browsing while listening.

Mental Health and Virtual Connections

  • Humans are social creatures and communicators at heart. Research shows just how much we communicate nonverbally; body language, facial expressions, eye contact, little tiny things that we’re able to see, and decode, consciously or unconsciously.
  • Put everyone into little postage stamps on your screen, and those cues are mostly gone. But your brain is still trying to seek out that same information, so it goes into gathering mode. Your brain quickly becomes overstimulated, trying to pay attention to so many different things, that it doesn’t really focus on any one thing particularly well.
  • All of this leads to one thing, which many of us are experiencing right now: Exhaustion. Not the same “I’ve worked too much this week exhaustion, either.” It’s the “I’m not getting enough done, and having the right social interactions to actually enjoy my week and feel like I’m making progress”.’’’
  • According to a recent NY Times article, dentists are getting increasingly more appointments from patients who have cracked their teeth from grinding them together. They are calling it an “epidemic of broken teeth.”

How Tech Can Help

  • Can technology also create the “randomness of relationship building” that we experience when we’re in the office?
  • How can you recreate those spontaneous interactions that make your office your office?
  • Employee recognition can stimulate conversations and a sense of belonging in a remote workforce.
  • Kin + Carta experimented using blockchain technology to create a “digital high-five” system. Within a year, it had 25,000 transactions

Show Notes 

(02:41) How Is Social Distancing Affecting Our Mental Health? 

In this episode, we discuss how therapists and business leaders have approached this challenge. Of connecting with people. Of substituting genuine human interactions. Of practicing empathy, vulnerability, and trust as best we can given the circumstances, with the tools at our disposal.

In addition, we talk about how tech can help us form creative solutions – including mental wellness apps, blockchain-based employee recognition systems, and how to rethink our relationship with the tech we’re growing all-too-familiar with.

(03:10) Mental Health and Virtual Connections

When the founder of Zoom, Eric S. Yuan was in the early stages of creating and growing Zoom, he actually refused to do in-person meetings. “Why would I leave my office, or leave the country to do an hour meeting, when I can do the same meeting over a Zoom?” he stated.

But suddenly during the pandemic, we turned to video conferencing apps like Zoom, Skype, and FaceTime to make us feel like we still had social lives. Virtual game nights. Trivia Nights. Happy hours. Boozy brunches.

(04:40) The science of Zoom Fatigue

Humans are social creatures and communicators at heart. Research shows just how much we communicate non-verbally; body language, facial expressions, little tiny things that we’re able to see, and decode, consciously or unconsciously.

According to experts, people tend to over “perform” while on Zoom calls, because they’re able to constantly monitor their expressions, how emotive they’re being, their posture. While in conversation with Alice Boyes, a former clinical psychologist and author of The Healthy Mind Toolkit, she said, “Especially with Zoom, you do a lot of monitoring, we know from studies of social anxiety that people with social anxiety do a lot of internal monitoring.”

All of this leads to one thing, which many of us are experiencing right now: Exhaustion.

“With Zoom, you do a lot of monitoring of yourself, and we know that from studies of social anxiety, that people with social anxiety do a lot of internal monitoring.”

Alice Boyes – psychologist and author of “The Healthy Mind Toolkit.”

(06:25) Beyond Exhaustion

So, what can we do about this different type of exhaustion that we’re facing?

What happens when you’re more than just “tired?” What happens when you’re beyond exhausted to the point where you literally can’t participate in another zoom meeting without zoning completely out. John O’Duinn, the author of a book called “Distributed teams: The Art and Practice of Working Together While Physically Apart” explained, “You had a particular way of interacting with people in meetings. You had exercise by walking around the building or walking up for lunch. Now you stay at home and you hop from one video call to another and you’re still in the same chair.” 

The impact is not just on our mental health. According to a recent NY Times article, dentists are getting increasingly more appointments from patients who have cracked their teeth from grinding them together.

Peter Jackson, CEO at Bluescape suggested employers need to address their employees’ Zoom Fatigue: “You have to step back and look at it from the standpoint of look you’re responsible for not just these people, but their spouses… their children, their lifestyle.” 

(08:28) Relying on therapy

Virtual therapy is growing in popularity. There are many platforms out there, such as TalkSpace and BetterHealth, where you can contact a virtual therapist. 

The first reason is the perception that therapy is a good thing for normal people to do is helping the industry grow. You don’t have to hide that you have a therapist anymore. the other reason is that it’s never been easier to see a therapist because of the new tools and platforms that exist now because of the acceleration of digital tools during the pandemic. You no longer have to take time off to leave your office and see a therapist. 

Surprisingly, some studies have shown that online therapy is even more effective than in-person therapy. A July 2020 study from McMaster University in Toronto, conducted seventeen randomized control trials comparing therapist-supported cognitive behavioral therapy delivered electronically to face to face cognitive behavioral therapy. The researchers found that online therapy improved patients’ symptoms better than face to face did. 

You have to step back and look at it from the standpoint of ‘Look you’re responsible for not just these people, but their spouses… their children, their lifestyle’.

Peter Jackson – CEO at Bluescape

(10:17) Longing for Random Physical Connections

But, what happens to our attitudes about work when we’re not getting that real direct human interaction? With all of us being virtual, it can really impact our perceptions of working being done.

Chris Weiland, Director of Kin + Carta Americas Labs explained “I’m on a Zoom, I’m chatting with my team. We’re all working. Whereas at the office, if you get up from your desk and walk to the washroom or walk to the cafe, you’re not working, you’re not typing. You’re not at your desk. You’re not connected.” So, can technology also create the “randomness of relationship building” that we experience when we’re in the office?

We’re all learning the new way to work at the same time. Try stepping away from the computer for your next meeting. Dial in to Zoom from your phone as you walk around the neighborhood.

There is also some great advice from psychologists Rachel and Stephen Kaplan. They have shown that mental fatigue can be treated via Attention Restoration.

You can undo the fatigue of directed attention, a.ka. Zoom fatigue by spending time in an environment that has the following qualities:

  • Being Away: A place where you are not being forced to pay attention to tiny images of humans
  • Soft Fascination: A place that’s of interest to you but allows you to be in it and be reflective.
  • Extent: The environment is somewhat familiar.
  • Compatibility: It is a place that you choose to be in and are not forced to be there.

The Kaplans have looked at the restorative power of spending time in nature which definitely matches all of these criteria. And this is more than just their opinion. There was a study done in 1991, where they compared how three groups of people did tasks that required a lot of attention. One group did not get to go on vacation. One group went on vacation in an urban area and the third group went to a rural area. All groups were tested before and after. All groups were tested before and after. The control group’s performance declined. Not surprising. The urban vacation group’s performance also declined. Do not tell the NYC board of tourism this. The urban vacation group’s performance was the only one that improved. Amazingly enough even just taking time to look at pictures of nature or pictures or art can help restore your attention. So, schedule a meeting with nature and DO NOT attend via Zoom.

Finally, it is important that you continue to make human connections, real, human connections that involve your co-workers but have nothing to do with work. John O’Duinn gave us a great tip, “It’s important to intentionally have time to socially chit chat with others. So every day, intentionally make 10, 15 minutes, and just have an impromptu coffee with somebody. It’s not a lot of time, you don’t have an agenda.”

“It’s important to intentionally have time to socially chit chat with others. So every day, intentionally make 10, 15 minutes, and just have an impromptu coffee with somebody. It’s not a lot of time, you don’t have an agenda.”

John O’Duinn – author of “Distributed teams, The Art and Practice of Working Together While Physically Apart”.

Contact tracing apps were supposed to help the world minimize the spread of COVID-19, and although the idea had a lot of promise, in reality, it fell short of expectations. In this episode, we dive deep into the role of technology and COVID-19, why contact tracing apps haven’t lived up to the hype, and what it would take to introduce something that… you know… works?

Contact Tracing 101

  • The premise is simple: Your phone notifies you when someone near you has had contact with someone who had COVID-19, or notifies you if you’ve been around someone who had COVID-19.
  • Experts are referring to the apps/technology as exposure notification apps to make a point that it is benefiting the users, not the trackers.

The problem: widespread adoption

  • Google and Apple formed a rare, collaborative partnership to create “Exposure Notifications” API based on Low Energy Bluetooth, keeping all data exchanged anonymous and limited to only what’s necessary.
  • Early versions of apps in states like Rhode Island, Utah, North Dakota, and South Dakota actually DID use GPS tracking, which sparked immediate privacy concerns, and the apps were pulled back.
  • An Oxford study concluded that 60% of a country’s population would need to use contact tracing technology in order for it to be effective. But many experts disagree and believe that any adoption could help mitigate risk.
  • It comes down to the user experience, and right now, “it just works” isn’t it. Getting someone to download it is the first step. Getting someone to use it is the second step. And anyone that’s deployed an application knows just how hard it is to do both of those things.

Getting more adoption:

  • What other options or experiences can we use to get more people to engage with contact tracing applications?
  • We have to prove that it works in order for adoption to happen. Right now, there is no social proof that contact tracing is working and minimizing the spread of COVID-19.
  • What if we paid Americans $1,000 to download a contact tracing app?

Show Notes

(01:15) Introducing Contact Tracing Apps

After a person tests positive for COVID-19, contact tracing is the process by which health officials try to track down who that person has had close contact with in order to warn those people and hopefully contain further spread.

(02:05) How do the apps work?

Most of them generally work like this: You have a friend over in your backyard for a socially-distanced drink after work, your phones recognize they’re close to one another and exchange some encrypted information via Bluetooth, which is added to an anonymous log, simply noting that the phones were close.

(03:04) Language Matters.

Exposure Notification vs. “Contact Tracing”. Experts suggested we should refer to the technology as “Exposure Notifications” instead of contact tracing. Contact tracing often sends the wrong message—it sounds like the technology is, well, tracing you, tracking your movements. It suggests the benefit is geared toward those doing the tracking and tracing—the public health officials. Exposure Notifications, however, is about notifying YOU if you’ve been around someone who had COVID.

“There’s no way to track somebody back to who they are based on the Bluetooth data that’s being shared.”

Jenny Wanger – Head of Implementor’s Forum at the Linux Foundation Public Health (LFPH)

(05:23) In collaboration with Google & Apple

In a rare collaborative effort, the two tech giants created their “Exposure Notifications” API, using only Low Energy Bluetooth, keeping all data exchanged anonymous and limited to only what’s necessary. “It turns out that what they chose for their protocol was very, very similar to what organizations like TCN Coalition were trying to do with their protocols,” explained Jenny Wanger, Head of Implementor’s Forum at the Linux Foundation Public Health (LFPH).

(08:46) The Oxford Study controversy

While talking with Jenny, we brought up a stat from an Oxford University study we’d seen cited over and over in doing research for this piece. According to sources all over the internet, this Oxford study concluded that 60% of a country’s population would need to use contact tracing technology in order for it to be effective. “This is an often misquoted statistic,” she said and explained that 60% adoption would be needed if Exposure Notification technology was going to be the only technology used in order to prevent COVID from spreading. (find out more in her blog article)

(11:06) Trust & Privacy at heart

Since the beginning, the issue of privacy and trust has been at the heart of the conversation. According to Jenny and the LFPH–confusion in the media and the public is largely drawn back to very early “contact tracing apps” that actually were using GPS tracking. But, she clarified: “There’s no way to track somebody back to who they are based on the Bluetooth data that’s being shared.”

For those who maintain privacy concerns, the importance of open source development is at the top of the priority list. This is what Google and Apple have done—the source code for the exposure notifications app is available on GitHub. 

So if privacy isn’t really the problem, what is?

“I think that we need to put a lot of intentional effort into publicizing the wins”

Ellie Daw – Senior Researcher & Working Group Lead at TCN Coalition

(15:43) Changing human behavior 

One major issue is friction. In the U.S., identifying the right app, downloading it, understanding how it works, and enabling your phone’s ability to allow it to work… it’s too much. “This is another thing that has to be prioritized and is competing with the other priorities of the average main street individual during this pandemic,” suggested Paul Heckel, VP of Experience at Kin + Carta

(18:05) Prove it works

One simple area that researchers and designers like Jenny and Ellie are longing for—simple stories showing that the tech actually works. “I think that one of the biggest elements of getting over that hurdle is going to be let’s make sure that the people hear about the ways that it is working, and let’s just really celebrate those wins.”

(19:10) Focus on Small Community Adoption

Some are suggesting that public health officials and developers should look to how companies like Facebook, Uber, and WhatsApp gained traction before they were the behemoths they are today: Targeting local, highly-focused communities where they’d be of immediate use, and then scaling up. Paul actually brought up a study that PR firm Edelman puts out called the Trust Barometer. In 2019, “My employer” was the one that outscored everybody else on the trust index. 

(20:02) Incentivize

“Pay Every American $1,000 to Download a Contact Tracing Application”—that’s the headline from a Slate.com article written in August by Zachary Kellenborn, a national security consultant. While the logic has an appeal, critics have been quick to raise the difference between downloading an app and actually using it properly. 

As we talked further, Paul from the Kin + Carta team suggested a different way to think about exactly that problem—incentivizing the behavior itself, and actually forgoing the download altogether, by integrating it into the “health” apps already on our phones. “I think that’s probably a better pathway to getting these things done, rather than certainly municipal or state engineered and delivered contact tracing apps, but I don’t think that’s ever going to work.

“It’s not just about developing a viral loop and making sure that you’ve got app store optimization and throwing up some Google ads and then working on advertising on podcasts. We’re really looking at it as a public health intervention.”

Jenny Wanger – Head of Implementor’s Forum at the Linux Foundation Public Health (LFPH)

(22:57) A public health issue

Jenny Wanger explained it’s critical to follow models focused on public health, not just digital user experience: “It’s not just about developing a viral loop and making sure that you’ve got app store optimization and throwing up some Google ads and then working on advertising on podcasts. We’re really looking at it as a public health intervention.”

(23:42) Narrow the options

This brings up an entirely different perspective, and we acknowledge the delicate dance we’re doing around the politics of this topic, but in matters of public health intervention, the argument would be, in Paul’s words: “Don’t give them a choice.”

As Paul explained, in the U.S., there’s a pretty good example of the non-elective type approach already installed on every smartphone, one we happened to experience not too long ago when the “Derecho” storm brought a rare tornado warning. “The wireless emergency alert service,” he said ”There’s no friction. There’s no opt-in. It’s just mandatory.”


Certainly a big leap for anyone already concerned about privacy and access, but an interesting way to look at how certain trade-offs between public health and privacy really aren’t that controversial at all. What if they all rolled out an Exposure Notifications feature? We have the greatest marketing machine known to man. Put it into service for the greater good. We got GM to make masks, let’s get Silicon Valley out there to save lives.